What if your psychiatrist prescribed lentils, leafy greens, and turmeric as well as SSRIs?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
For most of modern medicine, food and mental health have lived in separate worlds. Psychiatrists wrote prescriptions; dietitians talked about calories and cholesterol. Weight gain from psychiatric meds or a diet of fast food was treated as unfortunate but peripheral.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Dr. Uma Naidoo has been quietly dismantling that divide.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
A Harvard-trained nutritional psychiatrist, professional chef, and nutritional biologist, Naidoo is the Director of Nutritional, Lifestyle, and Metabolic Psychiatry at Massachusetts General Hospital and serves on the faculty at Harvard Medical School. She founded what is widely recognized as the first hospital-based nutritional psychiatry service, and her bestselling book, This Is Your Brain on Food<\/em>, helped move the \u201cmood\u2013food connection\u201d from fringe idea to serious clinical conversation, earning her the media title: \u201cAmerica\u2019s Nutritional Psychiatrist.\u201d Her second book, Calm Your Mind with Food,<\/em> uncovers the surprising and overlooked connection between the food we eat and anxiety. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Her core thesis is deceptively simple: food is one of the most powerful \u2014 and underused \u2014 tools we have for managing depression, anxiety, cognitive decline, and day-to-day emotional well-being, not as a replacement for evidence-based psychiatric care, but as an integral part of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n In our conversation, Dr. Naidoo explains how a childhood spent in her grandmother\u2019s vegetable garden led to a career at the frontiers of nutritional psychiatry; why a single conversation about what\u2019s in a 10-ounce cup of coffee can transform a patient\u2019s life; how specific foods and spices influence neurotransmitters such as serotonin and GABA; and why ultra-processed foods and chronic gut inflammation are so tightly linked with mood disorders.<\/p>\n\n\n\n She also talks candidly about how mainstream psychiatry has responded to this emerging field, what\u2019s being done to train the next generation of clinicians, and how she carefully and selectively helps some patients reduce their reliance on medication when it\u2019s safe and appropriate to do so.<\/p>\n\n\n\n At the end, we close with a quick FoodMedCenter \u201cfact sheet\u201d lightning round: from who is her foodie hero to her favorite brain-friendly breakfast and to the childhood dish she\u2019d pick for her last meal on Earth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> You\u2019re widely recognized as the US pioneer in nutritional psychiatry and the founder of what\u2019s considered the first hospital-based nutritional psychiatry service. What originally inspired you to bring together psychiatry, nutrition, and the culinary arts in one integrated approach?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> You know, it stems from my childhood. I grew up in a family that cared about nutritious eating, and I like to make fun of myself and say that I was a preschool dropout. My mom was in medical school, and I didn\u2019t want to go to preschool because I loved to hang out with my maternal grandmother, who was much more fun and loved cooking and had a vegetable garden \u2014 so I much preferred to stay with her.<\/p>\n\n\n\n From her, I actually learned healthy eating principles without realizing it. She\u2019d have me help her pick vegetables in the garden, then she\u2019d prepare a fresh meal that we\u2019d eat together with my grandfather at lunchtime, having conversations. And to entertain me, they would teach me yoga and meditation. So I didn\u2019t realize that I came into the world with this amazingly rich experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When I started seeing patients in residency, I recognized that in medical school we were not studying nutrition. We also know that very few \u2014 a very low percentage \u2014 of medical schools teach nutrition. But a patient early on in my career really opened my eyes to the power of nutrition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I recognized it was a gap. I saw that as we were training in psychiatry, we were checking certain parameters, but we were not really asking people: Were they exercising? What were they eating? Especially as we were prescribing medications that were causing weight gain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n As a new resident, a patient called me out and said, \u201cYou caused me to gain weight.\u201d I knew that wasn\u2019t the case \u2014 he\u2019d only been on the medication, an SSRI, for a week \u2014 but he was carrying this extra-large cup of Dunkin\u2019 Donuts coffee, which originated in Boston, by the way, so it\u2019s a favorite there, a 20-ounce cup of coffee. And so to almost distract him, but also because I realized I was asking an important question, I said, \u201cWell, I understand you have a concern, but first tell me: What did you put in that very large cup of coffee today?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n And he revealed that\u2019s he\u2019d added more than a quarter cup of ultra-processed creamer and eight to ten teaspoons of sugar. I rapidly went on the computer and calculated the number of empty calories he was consuming before he\u2019d even eaten breakfast. His eyes lit up. It\u2019s almost as though a light bulb went off and his affect and behavior changed. He was interested. He wanted to know: \u201cHow can I change this? What can I do? I want to be healthier. I want to lose some weight.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n That really changed the nature of our therapeutic relationship, but it also taught me a crucial principle: that simply explaining nutrition information to someone can be a powerful lever for change. And that really drew me to find a way to integrate this holistic and integrative approach into nutritional and lifestyle psychiatry while also including metabolism.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> When you started building a nutritional psychiatry service inside a major academic hospital and using food-based strategies alongside medications, how did your psychiatric colleagues react? Did you face skepticism or resistance?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> No, I didn\u2019t \u2014 and let me explain the context. I feel as though I had support from my chair to start this clinic – which in the end is the key to succeeding. And the individuals I worked with in the clinic were supportive and wanted to send me referrals.I\u2019ve had the privilege of very strong support and mentorship at Mass General Hospital. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Do I think that the wider group of psychiatrists fully believe in it? No, I don\u2019t. But they\u2019re not really attacking it in any particular way. And part of it is, I don\u2019t lead with arrogance. I lead with: here\u2019s information, this is what the research says. The research can have many sides to it. If you have a different opinion, ask me a question; we can have a conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n This is not mainstream psychiatry, though, Charles. I think it is encouraging that at the most recent American Psychiatric Association meeting in May of this year in Los Angeles, we had an education tour where we taught three culinary classes to mental health professionals. And the entire theme of the APA was lifestyle psychiatry. So I think that more changes are afoot, but it\u2019s going to take a long time for every psychiatrist, or more psychiatrists, to start to include these types of evaluations in their everyday practice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> Thinking about the next generation, within psychiatry training programs and professional societies, what concrete steps are being taken to help future psychiatrists and psychologists integrate food and lifestyle into standard care \u2014 along with medications when they\u2019re needed?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think mainstream psychiatry is doing much, except that I will say the recent president of the APA was very committed to lifestyle psychiatry and to highlight that he has actually even created a $5,000 award \u2014 a lecture award scholarship \u2014 for someone who is working in this area. And if you are selected, you present at the APA on this topic. So certain people are really trying to help bring it forward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Alongside that, there\u2019s lifestyle medicine. The American College of Lifestyle Medicine is rapidly growing. There\u2019s a lot of interest. And in real mainstream psychiatry–certainly programs like the ones that I run at Mass General \u2014 we have educational programs through our Mass General Hospital Psychiatry Academy. We are building more robust programming there and we want all mental health clinicians to know that if they want to learn this, if they want to be able to do more in this area, we have Continuing Medical Education (CME)-based programming. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Separate from that, Charles, there are lots of individuals, organizations, private organizations, and influencers on social media calling themselves all sorts of things and thinking that they\u2019re doing this work. But there are some guidelines around this work, and unfortunately not everyone is following them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So what I would say is that in organizations like the one I work at, we are bringing in actual training programs as well as coaching to help people get educated and learn more. So if they want more classes or more education around how we use these principles in real time in our practices, we can make that available to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> In your bestselling book This Is Your Brain on Food<\/em>, you outline core principles that define nutritional psychiatry. What are the key pillars you want both clinicians and patients to understand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> In my first book we set up six pillars of nutritional psychiatry. In my second book, Calm Your Mind with Food, <\/em>we really talked about six principles around anxiety.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The pillars of nutritional psychiatry, as I like to call them, include things like \u201cEat whole, be whole.\u201d Very simply put, one way to think about it is: eat an orange and skip the store-bought orange juice. Because the store-bought orange juice has a ton of added sugar, and the fiber is stripped from the actual juice. And that includes things like apple juice as well. So I like people to think about that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Another pillar is \u201cthe greener the better,\u201d encouraging people to eat their leafy greens. The reason being that we know that leafy greens contain vitamin B9, and there have been long-standing studies showing us that when vitamin B9, folate, is low, that can lead to higher levels of depression. So eating a healthy abundance of leafy greens, which are low in calories and rich in fiber and other nutrients, is a good idea as part of your daily diet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Another pillar is \u201ceat the rainbow.\u201d We\u2019ve heard this one before, and it\u2019s about really adding plant polyphenols and micronutrients and vitamins and minerals into your diet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Another is \u201ctap into body intelligence.\u201d Consistency and balance are the key. This is not a perfect diet; it\u2019s about trying to eat healthy 80 percent of the time. I like to say 10 percent of the time you might come across a cupcake! (Just not everyday!)<\/p>\n\n\n\n And the last one: avoid \u201canxiety-triggering foods,\u201d because anxiety is still the leading mental health condition worldwide, and having people understand what foods actually drive anxiety can be potentially helpful to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> Let\u2019s drill into dietary supplements specifically. For mental health, when does it make sense to consider adding a supplement instead of relying solely on food?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> None of us eats a perfect diet, and I think that is where dietary supplements really do fill a nutritional gap. For example, in the far Northeast where I live, people may be deficient in vitamin D. We should get this tested with our doctors before starting to supplement, but it is something important to check.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A lot of Americans are also deficient in magnesium. It could be our diet; it could be many different things. But that\u2019s another nutrient to check, so it may be that we need certain supplementation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I always like to say: eat your probiotics and your prebiotics. But some people prefer to take a supplement, and as long as they take it consistently and they find something that works for them, that is completely okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So supplements definitely play a role. I just don\u2019t think they should be replacing food, because we should be eating a more wholesome, whole-foods, healthier diet if we want to improve our mental well-being.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> You often talk about using food to modulate chronic inflammation as a way to improve mood and cognition. Can you walk us through how diet, the gut microbiome, and inflammation intersect with conditions like depression and anxiety?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> The gut\u2013brain connection is one of the ways we understand the mood\u2013food connection. But one of the things that gets set up in the gut is chronic, insidious inflammation, and one of the things that leads to that is the food that we eat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n If we are consistently eating fast foods, junk foods, ultra-processed foods, the balance of good and bad bacteria in the trillions of microbes that make up the gut microbiome changes. What we are doing is feeding the negative \u2014 we\u2019re feeding the \u201cbad guys\u201d in the gut \u2014 and those negative microbes take over and cause a process called dysbiosis, which leads to inflammation in the gut and, over time, can damage to the very, very delicate single-cell lining of the gut and lead to to conditions such as \u201cleaky gut\u201d or intestinal permeability.<\/p>\n\n\n\n This whole process of inflammation is really when you see an uptick of mental health symptoms, whether it\u2019s a worsening of mood, increased anxiety, lack of focus, or lack of mental clarity and more brain fog. That\u2019s often when we start to see either new symptoms emerge, or when prior symptoms, if someone had a prior diagnosis, get worse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So inflammation \u2014 and research is showing this \u2014 is being seen as an underlying factor for conditions including depression, anxiety, cognitive disorders, and more. So it\u2019s definitely a mechanism we need to be understanding.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> You\u2019ve highlighted the importance of specific whole foods in your books and talks \u2014 leafy greens, fermented vegetables \u2014 and also spices like turmeric. How do these foods and herbs actually influence neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, and GABA in ways that matter for mental health?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> Take turmeric, for example. In turmeric, the active ingredient is called curcumin. It is made about 2,000 percent more bioactive by the addition of piperine, which is basically the active ingredient of black pepper. So a pinch of black pepper goes a long way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Turmeric has been shown to fend off inflammation and fight oxidative stress, and it is helpful in conditions like anxiety as well as mood disorders. So it\u2019s definitely something you can add to our diet, and you only need less than a teaspoon of turmeric a day to get started. However, you should always speak to your doctor, especially if you are taking prescription medications.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When you think about other spices and herbs, they are nutrient-dense in the sense that they are rich in polyphenols and antioxidants, and they can really help people feel better and fend off inflammation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Also,when levels of certain bacterial groups are low, production of GABA, a neurotransmitter that reduces neuronal excitability, is reduced, leading to an increase in anxiety and a lack of mental clarity as well as insomnia and low mood. We now have a little bit more information about this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n one of the ways prevent that is by adding turmeric, saffron, and even things like chamomile from chamomile tea, and lavender to your diet. In my book Calm Your Mind with Food<\/em>, we use lavender tea, but there is also a lavender play-dough, which is not edible but is meant to help people de-stress and enjoy a moment of playfulness to help them relax.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Cinnamon and cardamom both have some impact on GABA neurons and improve GABA\u2013glutamate balance when someone is under stress. So spices and herbs can be very powerful, and adding them to your diet is not just a way to add flavor to food but also because the effect these antioxidant, anti-inflammatory rich nutrients neurotransmitters is quite important for our day-to-day mental health.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> For someone who doesn\u2019t have access to a nutritional psychiatrist but wants to support their own mental health with food \u2014 especially for everyday anxiety or mild low mood \u2014 what are the top evidence-informed changes you recommend, including any supplements you think are reasonable to consider?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> One of the supplements that has risen to the top in terms of anxiety is ashwagandha. It\u2019s really an ancient Ayurvedic herb and is quite bitter-tasting, but it can be found in a clean supplement, and if you want to go in the direction of a supplement, certainly ashwagandha is one to consider.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Saffron has a lot of evidence as a supplement for improvement of mood and is an option as a clean supplement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But one of the things you want to do if you\u2019re struggling and suffering with worry, stress, and anxiety is to think about how you can adapt your diet. The number-one thing that impacts a lot of people is the added refined sugars that are often hidden in savory foods like ketchup, store-bought pasta sauces, or even salad dressings. So maybe think about what you\u2019re eating, what things you can clean up or improve or make better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then lean into things like a plant-slant diet, or just adding more plants in your diet: more vegetables, more berries to increase your fiber intake. Fiber feeds those gut microbes and is an important nutrient, and vegetables are usually low-calorie so you can be satiated. By being satiated, you\u2019re not upsetting your glucose metabolism and you\u2019re not setting up your body for insulin resistance. You\u2019re keeping your blood sugar on an even keel because you\u2019re eating whole, healthy foods that are rich in fiber and vitamins and minerals.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Another thing that you could do is really look at the types of oils you\u2019re eating. Try to stay away from refined fats, trans fats, and hydrogenated oils. Rather, opt for omega-3 fats from wild-caught salmon or other fatty fish, or from plant-based sources like chia seeds or flaxseeds.<\/p>\n\n\n\n In addition to adding spices and herbs, another important factor is hydration. Keeping hydrated can actually fend off anxiety, so just making sure that you are not becoming dehydrated can be very helpful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> When a patient is already taking psychiatric medication, how do you think about introducing supplements \u2014 in terms of dosing, lab testing, and safety \u2014 so that nutrition and pharmacology work together instead of at cross-purposes?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> Usually for dietary supplements there are guidelines, right? There are the RDAs \u2014 the recommended daily allowances that we should be consuming. I try to have my patients stick with that, but also have their primary care doctor check a level before we start supplementing something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then it\u2019s about finding the right type of supplement but also trying to find solutions through food: What can they eat? What can they add to their diet as a first step? And then, if they\u2019re still struggling, or if their preference is to go with the supplement, we try to look at that next.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> If someone is overwhelmed and can only change one thing, what\u2019s the single most powerful starting point you\u2019ve seen in your practice?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> I think that the one jumping-off point anyone can use is this: I ask people to sreplace one unhealthy habit \u2014 just one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It could be that you gave up the gym during COVID and you\u2019re no longer exercising. It could be that you\u2019re drinking soda or diet soda several times a day. It could be that you\u2019re only ordering fast food and junk foods for your lunch or dinner. Usually, any one of us can think of one habit we need to change \u2014 and by that, I mean an unhealthy habit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The moment they become aware of it they are usually motivated to change it and work on a solution with me. When they change it and they stick with it, they usually start to notice an improvement, and then they want to do more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So that\u2019s often a really good way to start with people. It makes them feel autonomous, empowered, and the moment they start to feel better, they want to do a whole laundry list of things to feel better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> From a clinical standpoint, is it ever appropriate to use food and lifestyle changes to reduce a patient\u2019s reliance on psychiatric medication? Under what circumstances can that be done safely, and how do you approach it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> Yes, it is possible, and it\u2019s happened several times in my practice. But it\u2019s highly personalized to the patient, the clinical scenario, the foods they eat, and their consistency. The way I would answer that question is: yes, that has happened several times. It\u2019s a very careful, closely monitored process, because deprescribing or lowering the dose of a medication has to be done carefully, as you know. Sometimes individuals experience withdrawal from lowering the dose of a psychiatric or psychotropic medication, so it has to be done slowly and carefully.<\/p>\n\n\n\n These individuals also have to be assessed by a psychiatric clinician who\u2019s trained in mental health to make sure they are not unsafe, suicidal, manic, psychotic, or in any acute psychiatric danger before we can reduce their medications.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s a careful assessment. It\u2019s highly individual. It\u2019s definitely possible, but it\u2019s not for everyone. Some people just continue the dose of medication that they\u2019re taking, but they add these nutritional nad lifestyle strategies to help boost their mood and lower their anxiety. That can be very powerful, and once they\u2019re starting to feel better, we can sometimes lower the dose of their prescription medication.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> Let\u2019s finish with a quick fact sheet. First: where did you grow up?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> I grew up in Durban, South Africa, before I moved to Boston to study.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> The place you currently call home?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> I am mostly in New York these days, but I do travel to Boston, which I consider my academic home.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> Your current job title?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> My job title is the Director of Nutritional, Lifestyle, and Metabolic Psychiatry at Harvard\u2013Massachusetts General Hospital.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> As a child, you wanted to be a\u2026?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> Astronaut. Believe it or not, I did. You didn\u2019t expect that, but yes, I did. I was fascinated by space as much as I love food. I spent a lot of time in my grandma\u2019s garden, but I also was surrounded by a lot of doctors in my family, and so I would literally play with stethoscopes when I was a child. I think that influence and love for science was there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> One word you\u2019d use to describe our current food system?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> Flawed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> Who is your foodie hero?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> My foodie hero is Julia Child. She was also the patron of my culinary school. Her second career and the one she is most famous for, is the reason I went to culinary school.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> What did you have for breakfast this morning?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> Chia pudding \u2014 because I make it ahead and it\u2019s a quick on-the-go breakfast with nuts and berries.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> Your favorite food?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> That varies; it depends. I love cauliflower made with tikka masala spices \u2014 an Indian spice mix but used with cauliflower instead of chicken. I also love things like a dip I created recently made from chickpeas but with that sort of buffalo flavor and homemade mayo, to create a healthy dip for veggies that was different from hummus or what I usually eat. I like to change things up and challenge myself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> Your last meal on Earth?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> Oh, that would probably be one of the dishes my grandmother used to make for me as a child. It would probably be either vegetable biryani that she would make, or something with paneer. So it would be something I remember from my childhood.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> There\u2019s a lot of misinformation online. For people interested in \u201cfood as medicine,\u201d what kinds of social media accounts do you think are worth following?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> If you are making selections, just make sure that the person or the group you\u2019re following is well vetted and qualified to talk about the subject they\u2019re talking about, because there\u2019s a lot of misinformation these days. I think Dr. Mark Hyman is good; Dr. William Li is great. There are still quite a few people out there \u2014 you can read their books, you can follow their work. Also try to establish that the person you follow on social media is actively seeing patients and\/or involved in clinical research – not just commenting on science without the integration of research and clinical work. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Charles Platkin:<\/strong> If you had to pick one favorite healing ingredient?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Dr. Uma Naidoo:<\/strong> Turmeric \u2014 with a pinch of black pepper.<\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" What if your psychiatrist prescribed lentils, leafy greens, and turmeric as well as SSRIs? For most of modern medicine, food and mental health have lived in separate worlds. Psychiatrists wrote…<\/p>","protected":false},"author":32,"featured_media":19934,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_lmt_disableupdate":"","_lmt_disable":"","_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[786,11367,11373],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-19928","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-featured","category-food-as-treatment-for-disease","category-interviews-topics"],"yoast_head":"\nConversation with Dr. Uma Naidoo<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Fact Sheet<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n